|
Post by Skippy on Mar 24, 2023 13:20:06 GMT
Poll for what will auction house become
|
|
|
Post by waltdisney on Mar 24, 2023 13:28:48 GMT
Hey there!
I would prefer it to just be how it was before but WITHOUT the Algo.
1) Bought with game cash just like how it is now 2) 30% AH tax like what we have now however, you can lower it to 20% if you want it to be more tradeable 3) No 20m limit and can be resold again & again in AH for game cash onlyto make it more tradeable and based on the free market forces
For this reason, I voted for the 2nd option
|
|
|
Post by winwin on Mar 24, 2023 21:19:11 GMT
I would prefer for the 30% tax to be removed .. it makes no sense anymore as it was originally that high to promote trading with algo .. now it just decreases the value of collectibles for no reason Also it would be cool if getting collectibles allows you to customize your name like having an icon of the product with your name (if wanted) or any other feature.. It would incentivise going for collectibles
|
|
|
Post by patrik on Mar 25, 2023 9:29:14 GMT
My comments on the options: 1) I am not sure I understand this one 2) I really do not feel comfortable doing this as suggested. This would open wide doors for cheating. As anyone could sell collectibles for any price to anyone, this is equivalent to allowing companies to give each other cash. In my opinion. Regular resources have reference prices and we can somehow track what is a fair price or not. We cannot do this with collectibles. As currently propose, I think this would be the end of Sim Companies. Maybe you can elaborate how to address my concerns ... 3) This is currently my preferred solution, I already posted reasoning here: www.reddit.com/r/SimCompanies/comments/11xbir9/algoblockchain_removal_details/The ultimate goal is to have the collectibles trading done outside of the main cash economy (to avoid easy cheating). ALGO fulfilled this purpose perfectly, but we are removing it ... The auction house, which uses cash, was added cause we assumed there would be players that simply do not want to deal with ALGO/blockchain, and we wanted to allow them to get rid of the collectibles and move them to players that do ALGO trading. The auction house served it's purpose, however, we run into issues with pay-to-win schemes, where players pumped the cash value of what they were selling, and we had to add very string limits to the auction house. Long story short, auction house was extremely problematic. Trading for simboosts is the next best thing after ALGO, in terms of off-main-economy trading. The use of simboosts to win is already limited.
Since ALGO/blockchain is no longer needed and everyone has access to simboosts, there is no reason for the Auction House to exist anymore.
I received a few PM for players that disagree, so I asked why they need the auciton house. There might be reasons I miss, but all I got was: - We love auction house - We use it to avoid paying accounting fees
Perhaps you can comment here, or on reddit, and let me know why do you want to keep the auction house?
|
|
|
Post by waltdisney on Mar 27, 2023 8:24:08 GMT
Regarding just using the cash:
Auction house is basically a free market. The people who made the collectibles invested tens or hundreds of millions to make those items and so the AH can help determine a market price for the creators of those collectibles. Yes, people can buy and sell it if they get bored of the collectible or they consider it as a side business by buy & sell speculation.
The value for each collectible depends on the player. For some, because they make BFRs as their main business, they may attach a high value for a BFR collectible compared to a chocolate collectible. It can be used as an advertisement or a prestige item for them which are usually hard to quantify just like any collector’s item sold on Auction in the real world.
Learning speculation is also a good business experience. For example, some players can buy a high Q car collectible because it can be expected for other players to buy it a higher price in the future especially when almost all the collectibles will be made. As such, this can now be considered as a long term asset/long game investment.
The people who made the collectible wouldn’t really need simboosts anymore and people who speculate wouldn’t really need simboosts as well. Especially in the future, as many players may already finish all that you can do with simboosts except speeding up buildings.
As this is a business game, it just seems logical to use free market forces via AH game cash because this is a rare collectible and the real world determines prices of historical items, rare paintings and etc via auction as well.
- - -
Now, if it makes you too uncomfortable, just place a progressive AH commission system similar to how progressive income taxes work in many countries. Also similar to Accounting Overhead tax
Less than <25m bid = 12% 25m - 35m = 24% 35m - 45m = 36% 45m - 55m = 48% 55m - 65m = 60% 65m - 75m = 72% 75m - 85m = 84% 85m++ = 96%
- - -
Besides, if people really want to wealth transfer, they can easily just send CU/BFR at -15%/+15% to each other and gain tens of millions legally anyways.
|
|
|
Post by patrik on Mar 28, 2023 7:06:19 GMT
The market forces work only for high volume traded items. You mentioned AS BFR products.
If FPA sees trading between 2 parties at +15%/-15% there and back, and we know the reference price, it's very easy to spot cheating.
If I see a collectible, a rare painting, sold for $60M once. Where the feeder account simply offers a ton in the auction, I cannot really do anything about it.
I wish we didn't have these issues with duplicate accounts and cheaters but we do. In real life, you do not get a lot of cash upfront to start your business. In Sim Companies you do get a lot of cash in the start and you get it for free, which opens gates for dups cheating.
(The limits as suggested would both not solve the problem, and also enrage a lot of players who will not get why we have them. That's based on my experience.)
|
|
|
Post by waltdisney on Mar 28, 2023 9:08:21 GMT
Hmmm, this is quite a predicament.
Since we will use Simboosts instead of Algo, what if we replicate the same concept.
Like before, we can sell the Collectible in AH for game cash but it can only be sold ONCE. After that, it can only be traded for simboosts (instead of Algo.)You can keep the same limits of 30% tax or 20m max amount (whichever is higher) that the creator of the collectible can obtain.
In short, there will be an AH then also a Collectible Exchange.
Would this be a more achievable middle ground?
Also, regarding the simboosts, maybe instead of 1-month old purchased simboosts that can qualify for Collectible exchange, how about 6 months old because some people would probably buy bulk simboosts when it is on sale?
Please share your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by qmark on Mar 28, 2023 10:37:23 GMT
so ...collectibles and other stuff... that were presented like something and turned up to be nothing kind of thing. .. Simply put, I really dont care what options do you pick dear Patrick. I just want my company spendings on these, back. you see the system that you implemented, just left these useless. buy them back cheers
|
|
|
Post by qmark on Mar 28, 2023 10:50:26 GMT
one more thing to add... chaging CV for SBs...while considering that SBs role is to help you generate CV....then that is one thing I am not interested in. you see the exchange rate of cash for SBs is just not worth cause the extra CV you generate with those SBs is just too low...and it's good to be that way
|
|
|
Post by patrik on Mar 31, 2023 14:12:07 GMT
RE: waltdisney
That would work in principle, in the sense that it doesn't create cheating ground we do not already have.
But I do not see the value added. The Auction House has to be maintained, it consumes engineering effort. It's original purpose is no longer there, while it create a loop hole for pay-to-win and accounting fees avoidance.
To me this is no brainier, and so far nobody come up with a credible argument, why it should stay?
My goal is to cut out functionality/code that is used too little and not needed.
|
|
|
Post by gaijincorp on Apr 5, 2023 12:20:00 GMT
Hi everyone. I Think AH was good for getting collectibles sold to either collectors, who love to collect those pictures of high q produc ts, or to re-sellers, who when first ontroduced just wanted to gain some game cash reselling collectibles and later on with nerf just wanted to resell on ALGO. Thx to AH and to those buyers/investors, high q products could be researched and a portion of costs of researched be recovered to continue pushing for high q products / research. And why higher research? Because of CV and because of better profits/prices at higher q products... If AH was not there, research for higher q levels get desaccelerated, since there is less cash to invest into research then. The argument with avoiding taxes at rollover is nonesense, everyone knows. Since one never knows if the last bid will "survive" seconds before rollover. It is too high risk, and too few collectibles on AH. That is not the reason for maintaining AH. Is cheating or p2w possible at AH? I think it is possible inside certain frame or limits at AH as well as at any other product of the game. FPA stays out of any very cheap or very expensive deals between accounts from different players... That was not the motivation for buyers to pay high prices on lux articles and collectibles on AH. It is demonstarted that after the new rules were implemented at AH (reselling only possible on ALGO, sellers gets only up to $20M price paid), still enough collectibles of course only for certain products were paid well above $40M each. So, buyers are prepared to pay $40M, $50M and more for certain collectibles, not for all, of course - and it has cero to do with p2w motivation, which is limited through new rules.... So, originally, many people pay more for collectibles, not aiming to have an advantage like p2w. If one now has collectibles in his profile, also q11 or q12 even, they could easily get sold for $40M+ on AH. Some players even invested all profits last 12 months into collectibles.... And thx to AH many products got researched at a higher q level, what opens doors for trading on such high q levels first!
By the way, all this run after producing first 10x items of high q into new buildings or researching and converting into patents, also gave a lot of SimBoosts to the game, since those doing it where accelerating new buildings and the search after CTOs for the executives board. So, it also is beneficiary for the game makers and financing. Without AH, all of this would not have been possible and we might also lose some players who have meanwhile specialized on collectibles reselling in ALGO, or just see the opportunity or just those collecting. The values of collectibles will drop, I am afraid, since not many buy SB and not many are prepared to pump real cash into the game for keeping or buying new collectibles.... But this is only my perspective - certainly a valid one from one very active person on AH and after having talked to many of those regular buyers at AH.... Thx.
|
|
blade
Oil Patch Laborer
Posts: 57
|
Post by blade on Apr 15, 2023 14:32:58 GMT
, Hello Patrick, hello everyone. The auction house is a great idea. The building auction should also be implemented. I think changes have to be made. First, lower the bid button, to 200k for all bids in the auction. Second, impose a "simboosts" tax that is not refunded of a value of 5 "simboosts" in each bid. (If the player makes 20 bids in the auction, he will pay a total tax of 100 simboosts + the money of the offer. If he loses, the money is returned, the simboosts are not. In addition, a second tax of "simboosts" that is paid only once If the offer is between 1M and 5M, 5 simboosts are charged. If the offer-bid is between 5M and 10M, 10 simboosts are charged If the offer exceeds 10M, 50 "simboosts" will be charged for a single time. If the offer-bid exceeds 20M, it will pay +100 "simboosts" In summary. If a player places a single bid of 7M .. he would have to have paid 7 Million + 5 bid simboosts + 10 level tax simboosts "The player who owns the collectibles, at no time can participate in the auction. If the bid is above 10M and the player bid only once, he would pay: 10 Million + 5 bid simboosts + 40 level simboosts = Now... so that it is not yet, a scam thought, All the auctions end on Friday in the phase change. without exception so that the largest number of players can participate and the collectibles to offer or auction can be added up to 24 hours before. I have kept the daily simboosts all week, and I want to buy collectibles, so I would have 70 "simboosts" and I could participate. As a collectible buyer I can wait until Friday to bid, and then save simboosts knowing what is needed. But that would prevent prices from inflating because there are many competitors, and also many offers. That is why, whoever wants to resell their collectible has to pay 100 simboosts to sell it again. For example, I bought a collectible for 2 million dollars, and I want to resell it, so I would have to pay 100 simboosts. There would be many players who want to build their collectibles, and others want to get rid of it. In the same way it would be for the auction of buildings... the starting value would be half the value of the building. 5 simboosts per bid and 5 simboots up to 5M; 10 "simboosts" up to 10M; 100 simboosts past 10 million. One-time tax.
things to change: ... that collectibles can be sold as many times as possible, paying 100 permit simboosts. that when the auction closing deadline arrives, the player who made a bid can go to a second level of auction that will last 20 seconds, if he does not bid in that time, he loses his turn and those who bid continue in competition. so many times until there is only one player left. It would be something similar to the player auction, from the game "top eleven" (download) 2 I think the auction would have to be done by room. And not all collectibles together. choose a collectible and have its own bidding room, enter a room where all of us who want to bid on that collectible are. By closing the auction at the same time, it is achieved that everyone prepares to be able to auction, and not that the auction ends when they are sleeping. Eliminating those 5 extra hours... is a waste of time. And it gives for dirty external businesses, to deposit money in accounts. Everything is done in the moment. Thanks for reading and I hope you understand
|
|
blade
Oil Patch Laborer
Posts: 57
|
Post by blade on Apr 15, 2023 15:01:49 GMT
QUEDARIA POR DECIR, QUE SE ELIMINA ESE IMPUESTO DEL 30% de subasta.
La subasta empieza a partir de 3M para que los jugadores nuevos no puedan participar. el jugador dueño del coleccionables no puede participar. Si al terminar el tiempo de subasta han ofertado 20 jugadores en esa semana, pasan a una segunda subasta que dura 30 seg.. para eso tienen que estar conectados, en linea. si oferta un solo jugador, es el ganador si ofertan más, ejemplo, 10 jugadores pasan a otros 30 segundos donde tienen que ofertar una vez, si hay más ofertantes, pasan a 30 segundos, asi hasta que quede un jugador, que seria el ganador. Parecido a la subasta del juego de futbol de "top eleven". Podria ser que la subasta termine todo el mismo día, o 72hs apartir de que se produjo la oferta del coleccionables entonces uno puede calcular que dia puede estar libre y conectado. De esta forma, da a la posibilidad de que jugadores nuevos, dentro de unos 6 meses puedan comprar su colecionables, que jugadores nuevos puedan comprar edificios. Eliminar, el cobro de 50 simboosts para desbloquear lugares mostar en el perfil certificados y coleccionables. Que la industria aeroespacial, este en el mercado, asi evitar los lobbies de grandes corporaciones, que se aprovechan de los pequeños jugadores imponiendo un precio unico. Y asi conseguir productos que solo se ofrecen en el chat de ventas.
|
|
|
Post by liquidgoldretail on Apr 27, 2023 0:59:27 GMT
I think there should be a tax taken from it if there is allowed to be resold. I feel it can cause some issues, but reselling these is a large step that should be taken. I believe reselling and the $ aspect can be altered a bit. But I think this is the best option
|
|